How to network smarter

- Hey, everyone, it's great to see Cheyenne in Germany, Christian in Zurich Drikus in South Africa, Darren in Seattle, Marcelo in Brazil, Ramon in Australia, Karen in Brussels, Ravi in India, so many folks, and me. I am Jessi Hempel I am host of "Hello Monday," our flagship podcast. I'm a senior editor here at LinkedIn. And today is all about how to network smarter. You know, most of us were never really taught how to do this, but we are going to learn today together, and we're going to do it with the best networker that I know, truly, Dorie Clark. Now, Dorie is a globally recognized communications expert. She's coached leaders at places like Google and Microsoft and the World Bank. Whether you're job hunting or you're pivoting or you're trying to build more momentum in your career, this is a conversation for you. By the end of today's session, you are going to know how to build lasting connections that open real opportunities, how to restart a network that's gone quiet, and how to master cold outreach so that you actually hear back. Now, that's a tall order, and I want you to get into this conversation early. Drop your questions for Dorie in the comments. We will answer as many of them as we can live. And if you want to watch again, the full replay is going to be available right here on this page. All right, let's get into it. Welcome, Dorie. - Jessi, so good to see you. - It's great to have you. You know, you and I have known each other for a long time now, and I am not exaggerating when I say that you really are among the very best networkers that I know. So what does it mean to be good at it? - When I think about networking, and I know that this is a word that is loaded for so many people. - Yes. - They kind of dread it. They feel like, oh, I should do it, but I don't want to do it. I think about networking as basically, in my mind, I translate the term to making friends, because I think most people want friends. They want to make friends. And if we just remove it from the business context and think about building connections with people, everything else can flow from there. You want to have fun. You want to enrich your life as well as whatever ancillary business benefits come from it. - I think you just hit on the very most important thing, the big takeaway for today. I think so often we are quick to divorce our actual friends from business connections, right? And it sounds to me like what you're saying is, actually, that's the wrong approach. - Yeah, absolutely, and it's true that it's a both and. Your friends are certainly part of your network because they love you, they want to help you, and, in many cases, they can. It is also true that studies have shown that most of the opportunities come from people who are more tangential connections, because usually those are the people who know things or know people or know of opportunities that you don't. So you want to go deep, and hopefully, you also don't want to stop there. You also want to go wide where you can. - Right, so there's this real difference between transactional networking and relationship building, and the relationship building is what we want to lean into, right? - Absolutely, yes. - And yet, I think we all want a playbook for how to do that. Like, what are the early transactions that begin to do that? Do you have any thoughts on that? - Well, I think the most important thing is when it comes to, you know, the sort of transactional mindset that we want to avoid, it is going into a place, you know, going into a venue or a conference or whatever and saying I need a thing, I'm going to get a thing. And I understand all of us sometimes are in a position where maybe we do need a thing. Maybe we need funding for our start-up, or we need to get a job, or we need to, you know, somehow figure out our way to a certain business or a potential client or something like that, but that can't be forefront in your mind. I wrote a book called "The Long Game" specifically because the more we can defer gratification in networking, the more we can say, you know what? I'm going to just get to know people, and good things will happen. I mean, it sounds like, you know, we're doing a secret or something, but it's actually not like that because we all know instinctively, I mean, this is one of the biggest impulses that evolution primes in us, when someone comes to us, and we sense that they want something from us, that is the biggest turnoff. Everyone will know, and it will backfire, and so you need to remove the wanting and just get into a space of curiosity. - I love that because it's also just as true that humans love to help each other. When you actually care about somebody, you want to come through for somebody. - Yes. - Okay, so many people in the audience, I just want to call a few of you out. Thank you for being here. We've got Natalia in Berlin and Vijay in Mumbai and Craig in Florida, Debbie in Michigan, Emile in New York, Francesco in Paris, a very global audience today. A lot of questions. We're going to get back into "The Long Game" in a couple of minutes, but this question comes from Devraj Sana in India who's curious about the right balance of marketing yourself and genuine interest. Devraj says, "How can professionals strike the right balance between showcasing their expertise and genuinely showing curiosity when building new relationships?" - Yeah, this is a really important question because oftentimes, especially when we're nervous, we tend to over-index on wanting to prove ourselves, wanting to show off what we can do, so that, you know, maybe we will draw in the people around us because they're so impressed. But, of course, that usually backfires. And so I actually have a rule for myself, I call it, you know, playing a game of networking chicken, and what I mean by that is that I try, when I'm meeting someone, to go as long as humanly possible before telling them much of anything about myself, because that way, number one, I'm learning as much as I can about them. People usually like talking about themselves. But number two, I'm getting context about their life so that whatever introduction I then make, I can make it targeted and personalized to the elements that are going to be of interest to them. So, when I'm in the early stages of meeting someone, you know, at an event or something like that, I try to probably ask 75% questions of them, so I can really learn what matters to them. And then, eventually, the person almost always says, oh my gosh, I've been talking so long. Tell me about you. And at that point, they're genuinely interested. They want to hear it. - That's right. And if they don't say tell me about you, well, that's its own red flag in terms of whether you want to be in a network with them. - Yeah, exactly. - Yeah. I love that little hack for basically dealing with your nerves, right? Because when we get nervous, we just start in talking as a way to quell our nerves, right? And end up talking way too much about ourselves before we get to the questions. Okay, this question comes from Pascal De Roeck in Brussels, and it's about maintaining a relationship after that initial connection. So, "Gaining the connection feels like the easy part," for Pascal, "Maintaining communications is tough. How can we make that easier?" - I love this question from Pascal because this is the part that, early in my career, I struggled with the most. I knew that I needed to meet people. Okay, great, check, I'll ask for an informational interview or I'll somehow connect with them, have a coffee, and then I dropped the ball because I just didn't know where to go from there. So the main thing that I try to do now and that I advise others to do is, during that initial encounter, you want to be asking a set of questions, and you can think about this and figure it out beforehand, that are going to be essentially conversational hooks that you can continue afterwards. You want to be digging in, not just to the professional, you know, so Jessi, tell me about your job. What do you do at your job? Do you like your job? But trying to find out about them as individuals so that you will then have legitimate excuses and reminders to follow up with them afterwards. So, if I find out that you have kids that are a certain age, if I find out that you love dogs, if I find out that your favorite vacation spot is X, Y, Z, the next time I see an article about that in the paper, the next time I hear a story or a reminder, I can reach out and say, Jessi, I just saw that X, Y, Z thing happened. It made me think of you. How are you doing? It's very organic, it's very natural, and it keeps the connection alive. - I love that. And it's not an ask, right, it's an offer. - That's right. - Okay, this question comes from William Johnson in Louisiana. It's about overlooked foundation of networking. William says, "John C. Maxwell said, 'If networking had a blueprint, most people would still miss the foundation.' So what do you believe the foundation to be?" - Yeah, that's an interesting question. If we're talking about a foundation of networking, it really, for me, I think is about a search for community in some ways. When I got, I say in air quotes, serious about networking, aside from just the, oh, I need to do it, I ought to do it, it was when I moved to New York, which was now, you know, 10, 11 years ago. And I moved here, and I realized I had a lot of people that I could have maybe a coffee with, but I didn't have anyone to hang out with on a Friday night or a Saturday night. I didn't actually have friends here, and I was just, you know, sitting by myself after I finished unpacking my apartment, saying what do I do now? And I realized I needed to do something about it. And what I thought about, what I hearkened back to, was when I was a little kid, my mom used to say, "If you want to get an invitation, you need to give an invitation." And I thought, okay, that's a thing I can do, that's a thing I can control, and so I started trying to lean into that. - I love that. I actually want to explore that more. But we'll get to that in a second because this question comes from Adam Silver. He is an introvert. Adam says, "What advice do you have for introverts who are not comfortable navigating the social aspects of networking?" - Oh, I have lots to say, Adam. I have lots to say because I'm an introvert as well, which sometimes people, they push back, they're like, no, you're not. - [Jessi] I was going to say, Dorie. (laughs) - And they think that if you, you know, are somewhat lively in certain circumstances, oh, you can't possibly be an introvert. But, of course, you know, we know the official definition of introvert or extrovert is whether or not social encounters tire you out at the end of them or whether you get more energized. And certainly, for me, I love socializing, but I do get tired from it. I need to kind of have a recovery period. So the two things that I have learned personally that have been most valuable for me, number one is you need to control the circumstances. So often, the networking events that are kind of the open admission, like come to our networking event, they are designed for and by extroverts. They are not going to be right for you as an introvert because basically, they throw a bunch of people in the room, and they say, oh, go talk to each other. That might be nice if you're an extrovert. It is absolutely unbearable if you are an introvert because it's like, what do I say? You need to create your own events, which sounds stressful, but is so much better. Have a small dinner, have a one-on-one. That's totally valuable. The second quick hack is if you feel comfortable, actually, ironically, being a speaker, like being the center of attention is actually much better because if you are center stage, people come to you afterwards, which, for me, socially is so much less anxiety producing than having to go up to them. I'm curious, are you an introvert or are you an extrovert? - I love that you ask, and I actually am sort of curious about the rest of you. Who do we have in the mix? Are we mostly extroverts or mostly introverts, identify yourself. I am ambi. I am, because here's the truth. I am a huge extrovert. I love people, but I need to recalibrate. And so, for me, the trick to figuring out how to do that has been, like you said, it's been exactly what you said. It's been figuring out how to control the circumstances, the entrance, the exit, the way in which we're going to be in touch, it's so critical. That second hack in particular, hadn't really thought about the way that the nature of the role you play in an event determines how you structure the relationships. - Yeah, so for you, Jessi, what would you consider an optimal networking event? Like, what works best for you? - A small breakfast. Breakfast, because it's shorter than dinner. I'd like an hour and 15 minutes. I want a group of people at a table with a reason to talk. I want there to be about 10 people. I'd like to feel comfortable, like really comfortable with two or three of them. - Is it coincidence that that's the circumstance under which we started to become friends? - Actually, now that I think about it, it was exactly that breakfast. How about you? What's the perfect for you? - Yeah, I agree. I mean, some kind of a meal is great. I like a smaller group of people. I think six to 10 is amazing. One hack that I have that I think is really important, especially for introverts, although I think it's useful for everyone, is that in advance of the event, I send out an email to everyone and I say who is coming, and I give a link to their LinkedIn profile so that people can research it. Because for people who are a little nervous, it makes you feel so much more calm and in control if you can research the people beforehand, if you can think through, gosh, okay, this seems interesting. I'm going to talk to him about this. I'm going to talk to her about that. And that way, you don't have to go into the dinner or the breakfast with anxiety. You can feel like, okay, great, I have things I can communicate about with these people. - I love that. Okay, let's bring in the rest of you all here. This question comes from Shali, who is here with us in the US, and it concerns growing your network for a career pivot. "What's your advice for people who are passionate about a new field, but they don't have existing networks in that field?" I know you have done this recently. "How can they make meaningful connections when they feel like an outsider?" - Yeah, it's a hard feeling for sure, but it is such a valuable process. So the way that I like to think about it is, it's almost like a Venn diagram. The good news about someone who's a career changer is that presumably, over time, you've built up a pretty decent network in your original field. And there are often places and people that overlap with the place that you want to go. And so you're alluding to this, in my case, nine years ago now, I decided I wanted to learn to write musical theater. And so because I was in the business and career space, I decided, okay, what's a good inflection point? All right, I can meet producers because these are people who are interested in the arts, but they are business-minded. So I had one friend, and usually it's like, look for your connectors. So I had one friend who had done Broadway producing in the past, and I was like, "Great, can you help me get connected?" And he introduced me to a few people, and I began from there. And it was because of the overlap with my business background and then these folks who were in the arts that the transition worked. - I love that, and I love that it started with one. One is a pretty small number, and look what has become. Okay, this question comes from Maria in New Jersey, who is nervous about self-promotion. I really identify with that. "What if you don't like talking about yourself?" - Yeah, I mean, lots of people don't. And in fact, one of the best strategies that I've come across actually comes from some research that was jointly done by Jeffrey Pfeffer at Stanford and Robert Cialdini, the dean of the study of influence and persuasion. And what they discovered is that, not surprisingly, in most cases, if you are really beating your chest self-promoting, people don't like it, it turns them off. You know, they don't listen. So the thing that we're worried about doing, good news, don't do that anyway. What actually works much better is if you have someone else do it for you. And so you can essentially find a friend, find a wingman,- - Uh-huh, uh-huh. - and make a pact with them. - Okay. - Hey, Jessi, at this conference we're going to, I'm going to look for opportunities to help you and talk you up and introduce you to people. - Yeah. - You do the same for me. And when the information is coming from a third party, it is taken so much more seriously, and people listen, and they're like, oh my gosh, I can't wait to meet Jessi. - Okay, I love that. I will do that for you any day. I will be your wingman. - Oh, I got you. - And it's so critical that we do that for each other, right? It's a really strong way that we can support each other in this. Okay, I want to move on to, you know, we just touched on it, this idea that like, sometimes you need to build a network where one doesn't exist at all already. So a lot of folks are wondering about what happens when your network has gone dormant. Maybe you've been out on parental leave, maybe you're choosing a new industry, maybe you've just been in the same job for 15 years, and you haven't needed to stoke a network. Okay, before we do that, oh my gosh, there are so many of you in the comments. I just want to call out a few, and thank you for being here. We've got Andrea in California, Fernando in Chile, Ed in the UK, Carrie in Wisconsin, Chris in Brazil, Sophia in South Africa, Eunice in Brazil, I could go on. Thank you for being here. Now to the dormant network. Where do you start? Do you start, let's start with are there different ways that you can start digitally and in person? - Yeah, absolutely. So one interesting piece of research is actually that dormant ties can be some of the most effective when it comes to the return on investment that you get in networking because a dormant tie is someone who knew you in the past, you built up, you know, presumably a bit of trust and rapport with them. You haven't talked to them for a long time. And there's been interesting research that when they ask people, okay, if you got in touch with this person, you know, how would they feel? And everybody says, oh, they'd be so suspicious. They'd think it was weird. You know, they'd be like, why are they contacting me? And then the researchers ask, okay, well, what if they contacted you? And invariably, people say, oh, that would be so nice. I'd love to hear from them. (Dorie and Jessi laughing) And so the truth is we overestimate the amount to which people will feel weird about it. They're almost always happy as long as you're coming in in a genuine way. So, and the great thing about a dormant tie is that in the years since you've talked to them, you know, maybe you went to high school with them or college, maybe you had, you know, your first employer or whatever it was, your paths have diverged. So they still know you and care about you in a general sense, but they now have a network that is wildly different than yours because the paths have diverged over time. They can be quite helpful because they know things you don't. So send that message, reach out, and be honest. You know, the key thing is you never want to spring things on people. Oh, Jessi, I'd just love to hear from you, and, you know, let's catch up, and then you get together, and it's like, hey, Jessi, I need a job. - [Jessi] (laughing) Yeah. - You don't want the sneak attack. But if you're just open, and, you know, of course, you can say like, hey, you know, I'm looking for work, I'm exploring opportunities, but tell me about your life. Like, as long as you're not pushing something, people will be so happy to connect. - I love that. Okay, we have so many questions here that I'm not even going to ask you a follow-up on that. We've got a lot of interesting career breaks, okay? And we've talked a little bit about this, but this question comes from Valerie in Texas who wants to know, like, "How do I think about re-engaging my network after taking a break?" Just kind of more of what we're talking about. - Yeah, absolutely. So we had talked a little bit about, you know, sending messages, suggesting, you know, hey, could we have a virtual coffee, a real coffee, those are great things to do for people that you have a depth of relationship with. - Yep. - But when we're thinking about breadth, something that I'll suggest is an amazing thing about the world of social media and social networks is that you have more than ever the opportunity to communicate by osmosis with people. And so starting to share content, you know, for instance, on a place like LinkedIn, is actually remarkably helpful because it gives people an ambient awareness of what you're doing. If you haven't been active, if you haven't been posting or sharing things for a long time, all of a sudden, if you're doing it, you know, even, you know, once a month if you haven't done it or once a week, it pops up in people's feed, and they're like, oh, Valerie, I haven't thought about her for years, and it begins to familiarize them with who you are, what you're doing now, what you're interested in now, and it begins to enable new opportunities to come to you. - Well, I love that you're talking about that because we actually have some direct questions about that. This comes from Scott in Wisconsin, who says, "I have a strong LinkedIn network. How can I best leverage those connections to network effectively and secure a new role during my career transition?" - Yeah, that's great. And I also want to just sort of put a pin in the point a strong LinkedIn network, because it's great to have a strong LinkedIn network, and I would like everyone to have a sort of holistic view about it's not just on LinkedIn, it's my network. - Right. - And so, how do you find opportunities to connect not just virtually, but in real time or in real life with people? Now, of course, it may be from around the world, but I'll tell you something that I did during the pandemic when we weren't able to gather in person is I would organize, like, Zoom networking sessions, and it was just fun. You know, it would be like an hour. You'd have, you know, like a cocktail hour or whatever it is, and bring people together that you thought would have a common interest or would be interested in connecting. That is something that people can still do, even though we are now able to socialize in person more. - I love your call out there, and I think I just, it cannot be said clearly enough. Networking is not about the number of connections you have on your LinkedIn page, or it is not about the posts. It is about the people that you can call in a moment. It is about how you take care of those relationships, how you give to and get from those relationships. The LinkedIn, the whatever, the email, it's all just tools, right? And the tools are very useful to help you build, but what you're investing in is the people and the relationships, right? - Yeah, amen. - Yeah, okay, so that brings us to the question of size of networks. This question comes from David Martin, "How many close contacts can we realistically maintain, and how often should we stay in touch to keep the relationships alive?" - Well, there actually is some research on this, as it happens. There's a gentleman at Oxford University named Robin Dunbar. And so, there's a famous concept, Malcolm Gladwell has talked about it in his books, known as the Dunbar number. And what Robin Dunbar discovered is that in most ancient societies, the group of people that was sort of the unit of these, you know, ancient people, hunter-gatherers or whatever, was usually about 150 people who stuck together, and interestingly, that number has echoed over time. Because you think about like military regiments or things like that, and often there are about 150 people. Now, clearly, most people these days are in contact with a lot more people than that, and that's fine, and it's good. It's nice to have a vast network of people that you might be tangentially aware of, or they know of you. And with social media, you can certainly be sharing to a lot more than that. But, as we think about numbers that realistically we can maintain a depth of relationship with, that might be a number to keep in mind. - I love that. And it reminds us, you know, 150 is not that many at the end of the day, and it reminds us to go deep rather than going broad. Okay, lots of job seekers in our chat. And this question is really about looking for remote work. It comes from Veronica in Washington, DC, who says, "I'm looking for a remote position. What networking strategies would you recommend for somebody pursuing that particular path?" - Yeah, so for remote work, and in many ways, the quest for a remote job isn't that different than the quest for an in-person physical job. The good news is that you can apply to things in a lot more places. But I think that the most valuable thing that any of us can do is, where possible, really try to cultivate a unique skill set so that no matter where you are, you can kind of call the shots. One of the things that doesn't get called out enough in networking, because it's maybe a little weird or uncomfortable, is to talk about the power dynamics that are involved in various aspects of networking. And certainly, for job seeking, if you are someone that has unique skills that are highly valued, I mean, the classic example right at this moment would be like, oh, you're an AI researcher or something, but it's true in any industry, there are certain skills or abilities that are prized at that moment. If you can cultivate that, in many ways, you can call your shots, because even if theoretically the position was an in-person position, if you are a candidate that really has something special, and you're like, look, I'm in DC, I'm not moving, but I'd like to work for you. Can we work something out? Oftentimes, there are concessions that employers will make. Things that seem to be fixed and firm are almost never fixed and firm if you are the person they truly want. - I think that's such a good point. You know, you see so much advertised about, well, this is in person, and this works this way. You get to the right candidate, and almost always on the back end, those rules will change, but you need to know to ask. - That's right, I mean, the thing that blew my mind early in my career, I worked for a guy that was a professor at a university, and I assumed that he had a PhD because, right, all professors have PhDs. And I discovered a little ways into it, I was looking at his bio, he did not have one, and I thought, how is this possible? Doesn't everyone have to have a PhD? But he had become famous, essentially, in the field through another route, and he was able to parachute in and get this academic job because his name drew people in, and they're like, you know what? We don't care. We will make an exception for him. And that really stayed with me, that if you have something special that people want, that you can acquire, sometimes it's through education, but sometimes it's through experience or things that you've done, you can make that happen, and rules will be bent for you. - I love that. Okay, this is about finding the right people when we're building our network. This question comes from Michael, who is here in the US with us, "How do you network with actual hiring managers or senior executives in the particular industry you're interested in seeking a new opportunity in?" I'm going to add a clause, if you don't know them already. - Yeah, yeah, exactly. So this, in many ways, goes back to the point about how do you cultivate new people in a realm that might be alien to you at the moment. And so, of course, you know, you know this, Michael, a great starting point, of course, is, you know, look on LinkedIn, look for the connection. See if you can get a warm intro. That's always the first thing we should do. Presumably, you've already done that. And if that is not the case, then I think one of the best things we can do, I call it the dropping the handkerchief strategy. And, you know, yeah, I grew up in the South, and, you know, the traditional thing at the dances was the ladies would drop the handkerchief and then their suitors would run up and say, "Oh, miss, did you drop this," (Jessi laughing) and that would be the opportunity for a conversation. - Right. - And so, if we are dropping our digital handkerchief, it is making ourselves findable and discoverable by the right people. So, for me, one of the best ways that we can demonstrate expertise in the field that we're in or that we want to be entering is start creating smart content. Or if you don't feel comfortable enough to do that yet, start curating smart content. You know, read industry journals, make comments on it, share it on LinkedIn, talk about why this is interesting, why this is relevant, and then eyeballs are going to be coming to you so that those recruiters and hiring managers will say, oh, well, this person does interesting stuff. Hmm, he seems to be keeping up, and that creates momentum toward you. - Yeah, I love that. I want to build on that with this. It just makes me think about the proliferation of AI tools, as you talk about creating content. And I am curious your perspective on where some of those AI tools belong in the process of networking, and specifically where they do not belong. - Yeah, well, one of my favorite uses of AI is it is actually really good these days at politesse. I sometimes have trouble calibrating, and, I mean, you know, theoretically, you know, I have real expertise in this, but even I have trouble sometimes where I'm having to send an email or something like that, and it's like, oh, actually, no, I don't want to meet with you, or maybe it is, oh, I really would like to meet with you, and you just want to get the tone right, and it is often very good at coming up with suggestions to help you massage it. It can make it more formal, less formal. It can highlight some points. And so, I think that can be really helpful just tonally to give you suggestions about alternative ways that you can approach people. I think what I would consider to be a bad usage of AI, we were talking a moment ago, and this was sort of the transition, about content creation or things like that. If you are not yet at a point where you feel confident enough in your expertise to really judge how good something is in a certain area, if you let AI create it for you, it will probably be dead center, average, boring, banal, because that is what it is optimized to do, and that is not really doing yourself any favors. - Yeah, well put, very well put. Okay, lots of questions coming in. This one from Olivia Ortiz, who says, "How would you suggest approaching new clients on LinkedIn, particularly since it's very impersonal? Is there a particular approach that you would recommend to make them want to meet up?" - Yeah, it's a really good question because certainly, many people want to approach prospective clients. And I think all of us have probably gotten the really standard, just boring boilerplate, delete, delete. So I think that the most important thing, again, if it is at all possible to get a warm connection or a warm introduction, that is 100% of the time going to be the most effective thing because it breaks through the idea of, you know, we're all a little skeptical of, you know, who is this complete stranger that wants something? But if you don't have that opportunity, really taking the time to go deep. This is a place where I think depth matters much more than, you know, shooting 1,000 arrows and just seeing what happens. Take the time to analyze the person's business or website or whatever it is, and say, you know, here's what I noticed. Here specifically is how I could help you. And if relevant, I've helped other people in your field like this. Here, you can look at this example. If you think this is useful, let's have a conversation. But you want the other person to feel like they're not one of a million people that you're messaging. You are someone that they uniquely feel like they could help. - I love that. Do you recommend asking for what you want, a meetup, in the first exchange, or do you recommend building to it? - Yeah, I think that it certainly depends on what you're trying to sell, essentially. Always, you know, the rule of thumb is if you're doing this kind of high ticket, you know, B2B, business-to-business transaction, I mean, I'm not going to give somebody a $100,000 contract because they sent me a message on LinkedIn. So you need to have a process to introduce them to who you are to get them to feel comfortable and to build things up. So, I think that it's going to be industry-dependent, kind of what the pacing is of what you're trying to do. - Well put, okay, so finally this question, and it's a popular one, but this version of it comes from Daniel Moser in Switzerland. It's about networking inside of a new culture or country. "How do I grow a network in a new geographical location with a totally different culture?" - Yeah, the culture piece is really interesting. And I think, you know, I'm always a fan, I love reading books, this is kind of a hobby of mine, about, you know, oh, here's how, I mean, I even remember reading a book once about Switzerland. It was called "Swiss Watching," which is the most memorable title possible, but it was about the cultural norms. I think one of the, but anywhere you go, there's going to be guides like this. But essentially, what you want to do is find an ally inside your company that is someone, maybe it's the person who hired you, maybe it's the HR director, maybe it's just someone that you admire that as you're going around, you perceive, oh, everybody likes this person, they seem to be respected, and go to them and ask for advice. And it could be asking for advice on two tracks. One is, okay, in a literal sense, what's normal here? Because we have assumptions and we have blind spots based on our culture about what seems appropriate or not, and so if they can flag certain things for you, that's going to be very useful procedurally. And then the second piece is, who should I meet? Who should I start to connect with? You can get a few suggestions. And if every time, in a genuine sense, you say are there other people I should meet, and as long as they understand you're not after anything, you're not making some big ask, you really just want to get to know people genuinely and buy them a cup of coffee or whatever it is, people will be generous in terms of their suggestions. - I love that. And it actually is sort of a wonderful transition moment for our final topic together. I want to spend some real time on cold outreach because it's overwhelming to get your mind around it, right? And think for yourself about what kind of cold outreach you have personally responded to, right? It's actually a good lens for thinking about, well, okay, how do I enter it? Let's start with writing. How do you write messages, not just on LinkedIn, but just in general in the world? How do you write messages that people will respond to? - So, for me, I think back to the best cold pitches that I've ever received, and they tried to convey three things that really, you know, hit it for me. Number one is they conveyed that they were an interesting person that was familiar with my work and respected my work, and I'll break this down further. But the second thing was they had kind of a unique offer that was a little different and a little out of the box. And the third was that they led with generosity rather than a thing that they wanted from me. So, one example, for instance, this is a few years ago, I was going to be speaking at an event in Denmark, and there was a woman who wrote to me, and she said, "Hi, I see you're going to be speaking in Copenhagen. You know, I'd love to meet you." Now, most people would've stopped there, and it would've been, okay, great, but who is this person? Why is she relevant? She then went on to say, "I really love your work. I've noticed you have a distinctive style. I am a fashion designer, and I have all of this experience in the Danish fashion industry. It's going to be just before Christmas. I would love to offer, if it's helpful, to take you Christmas shopping at all the best boutiques in Copenhagen so you can find nice Danish clothes and presents for your family. Would you like to do that?" And I was like, that sounds so wacky, and I don't know this person, but she sounds interesting. And also, I don't actually have, at that point, I didn't have any friends in Copenhagen, so my schedule was open. I'm like, "Sure, let's do that." - I love that. It's so specific. - So specific. - So specific, but it's clear that she researched you, right? - Yeah. - She knows what you might like to do, right? - Yeah. - Okay, first of all, there are so many of you out there. I have to just send a shout-out to Bruce in Edinburgh and Chris in North Carolina and Ushant in India, Ralph in Germany, Maria in Greece, Alden in Nicaragua, and Mary in France. Do we have anyone out there from Copenhagen? Let us know, I'm curious. And this question comes from Maurizio in Ontario, "What are the best cold network outreach opener tips for when I'm DMing on LinkedIn," our favorite platform around here? - Absolutely, yeah, I mean, I think similarly, a part that I really want to underscore is around showing that you're interesting, that you'll be interesting to the other person. Again, you know, we all know nobody wants to be sold too hard or something like that. But for me, and I think for many people, it's how would this person add value or be an interesting person to get to know. I think about another outreach, cold outreach that I received from a woman. And she, you know, was like, "Oh, Dorie, you know, hey, I like your work." She said, "I live in Cambridge, Massachusetts. You know, I think you come by there, you know, fairly often. I'm the leader of a band, and I do these concerts, and I do this thing with cooking parties in my house, and I'm also a professional chef. And if you come to Cambridge, you know, I can do a dinner, and you can invite people that you'd like to invite." - Wow. - I'm like that's crazy and interesting too, oh my goodness. So it's just, if you can find a way to set yourself apart and say this is someone that actually is fascinating. Yes, I would like to talk to them. - I love that. I'm just going to tell you, that sounds like a lot of work, and it makes me think- - It's so much work- - about quality- - so you can't do it- - over quantity, right? - for 1,000 people, yes. - Like, it's getting to the right people with the right ask. - Absolutely, yes. There's no way in the world that you could have dinner parties for, you know, 1,000 different people in your house. You have to pick who is going to be most important to your network, which means we have to be smart and strategic about who do I really want to get to know and build deep connections with. - I love that. Okay, this question comes from Elisa here in the US, and it's, again, around the timeline for follow-up. "So you've initially reached out to someone, maybe you haven't heard back from them, and, you know, how do you follow up?" Sometimes people forget to respond. I know, for me, there are days when like the kids' teachers call, and, you know, text messages, I see them fly by, but they just get lost. So, how can another person tell whether I just missed it or whether I'm giving them a cold shoulder? - Yeah, absolutely, I think that there's two tracks here. One is if it's cold outreach, if it's a stranger, another is a friend. If the person legitimately is your friend, they should be responding to you unless something is really wrong. So they might be busy, but you should really feel free with impunity to follow up periodically. I mean, I think about this, you know, this happens to all of us. I am having an event next month where I'm bringing a few people together, and I had messaged people that are friends of mine. They didn't respond for a week. Okay, great, they're busy. I don't feel offended. I just sent another message and said, "Hey, did you get this? Can you do it?" Both of them within an hour wrote back, and they said, "Oh, sorry, I was checking my schedule. I didn't know. Let me, you know, respond now." So I think that's a pretty normal thing. For someone who's a stranger, can certainly follow up a couple of times, but you don't necessarily want to keep following up forever, because if they're not biting, odds are it's not going to yield fruit after the 47th time, and that will annoy them a lot, so maybe move on to other folks. - [Jessi] You need a new approach. - [Dorie] Yes. - Dorie, we have quorum from Copenhagen. I just want to shout-out- - Oh, I love it. - Narendar, Michael, and Matheo to name a few. We see you, okay. - I still am mostly wearing Danish clothes now. Danish clothes are the most amazing things. - I have not been there yet, so maybe I should get there. What do you think? Okay, more questions for cold outreach. This is a question for me from Hiten Patel, but we can both talk about it. "Hi, Jessi, is this a bad cold outreach message? Hey, hey, X, the name, how are you? I hope you don't mind me reaching out. I've applied for X role at X, and I've come across your profile, any guidance?" Okay, if that question was for me,- - So would you respond? - I'm going to tell you, yes, that is a bad message, and I'm going to tell you it's not that it's a bad message in that it's direct, and that to me is the most important thing. Like, say what you mean. Don't need to beat around the bush. Like, get to it. The place where it goes wrong is that it's just like everyone else's. And I don't know about you, Dorie, but like, I am in a position in my own life right now where, in a work capacity, I get a lot of those messages, and so it's not going to land in my memory, and I'm not going to hold onto it. Dorie, do you have any ideas how you might start an email like that differently, just one or two ideas? - Yeah, if I were to make a few edits, okay, first of all, just in terms of the sort of professionalism, hey, hey, is awesome for a friend. I'm not sure I would address somebody that I don't know that way. But I think even more critical is it really does sound generic. Like, oh, okay, I want a job at LinkedIn, therefore I'm sending the exact same message to 21,000 people who work at LinkedIn. - [Jessi] For sure. - So I think that it could be helpful if the person is asking something much more specific. I would look up your profile. I would say, Jessi, I understand you do this. You know, you host this show, et cetera, et cetera, and try to ask, if you can, a really precise question. Jessi, I'm applying for this job, and I'm trying to understand, at LinkedIn, does it work this way or that way, or, you know, something like that. - I love that. I would answer that right away, so clear. - Because, yeah, if you ask something super precise, and even better, like this or that, yes or no, you will get a response because the person's like, oh, okay, well, actually, it's this way. Great, done, off my plate. And that is the start, hopefully, of a good relationship. Now, I wouldn't email you the next day and be like, oh, tell me this other thing. But it begins to build a rapport where maybe a month later, you could reach out and say thank you. That was such useful information. Just one more quick question, if you don't mind. And Robert Cialdini, the expert in influence and persuasion, has talked about something called the commitment and consistency principle. And so, if you have responded once to Hiten, and you go through and you see these emails, and it's like, oh, okay, he seems like a nice guy. I've emailed him a couple of times. Sure, I'll help him out. You know, it begins to build a sort of rapport by osmosis that is helpful. - Folks, that is why Dorie is a master at this. Am I wrong? Okay, this question comes from Tyler Hardy in Texas, who is clearly a fan of your work and has been paying attention to you well before our time together, and it concerns playing the long game. "You often emphasize the importance of playing the long game. What's something you've found helps people stay focused and motivated when the progress feels slow?" - Yes, Tyler, this is such a crucial question. The way that I think about it, the best metaphor that I've been able to come up with when it comes to playing the long game, and this relates to all kinds of things. Maybe it's I have a start-up and I want it to get acquired, or I'm working in a company and I really want to rise to, you know, the VP or SVP level, or whatever this long-term ambition is. I'm launching a product, and I want it to be successful. It is like entering a tunnel, and the problem, like we can all deal with the tunnel, but what we often can't deal with is the uncertainty about how long the tunnel is. Because once we're in it, you might think it's going to be a six-month process, but you keep going and going, and you're at month eight, and you're like, what is this? Is this ever going to end? This is terrible. And the really difficult thing existentially is all right, maybe in month nine, everything turns around and goes amazing, or maybe it's another 18 months, and you just don't know, which is the point where many people quit, and it can get demoralizing. So the way that I like to think about it is two ways we can solve this. The first is scoping. And so, in "The Long Game," I actually talk about the importance of proper scoping up front and having conversations. If you're trying to do a task or a thing, to have conversations with people who have done things that are similar so that you really have a realistic sense, and not just from one person, but from as many as you can. Is this going to be a six-month process? Is this going to be three years? You can take almost anything if you know what you're signing up for. So that's number one. - Yeah. - And then in it, it's useful to have metrics that are intermediate metrics so that you can begin to say, all right, well, I know it's going to take a while before the sales numbers are there, but what are the intermediate metrics that I can look at to see if I'm actually making progress? And you try to identify things like that. Maybe it's website hits, or maybe it's, you know, Google searches, or whatever it is. And that enables you to say, all right, I don't know how long it's going to take, but I can see I'm getting there. - I love that. If you climb Mount Everest, you don't get to the peak overnight. You get to base camp, and from base camp, you look at the next milestone. - Exactly. - Okay, we got to speed up here, Dorie, okay, 'cause we've got- - Oh, no. - some other questions to get in, and our time is short. This one comes from Alfredo in Florida, "Interested in introducing yourself at networking events. I'm a fan of having a solid intro for a networking event. What are the three tips for a solid introduction when networking?" Speed round. - Speed round, okay. I'm citing my friend Christian Busch, who wrote a book about serendipity. He says you should give people five serendipity hooks. And basically, it means trying to tell people, very quickly, five key things about you that are different. You know, I live in this place, I work in this job, here's my hobby, here's the most recent place I visited, whatever it is, if you give them five, almost inevitably, there will be something that they can talk to you about. - I love that. I really love that. Okay, this question comes from Assad Riaz. It's about setting up future opportunities. "I found a potential line manager on LinkedIn. What should I say to connect? And how can I build a relationship so that I'm remembered when an opportunity opens up at that company?" - Mm, that's interesting. Yeah, I think that when it comes to connecting with someone initially, as we were talking about before, it's about making small asks or asking, you know, small things. Oh, can you tell me this or that? And it's repeat exposure over time. Don't try to do too much at once. Build a relationship with small connections over time. - I love that. Okay, Dorie, this is our last question, okay? If you could give only one piece of advice for smarter networking in 2025, not much of it left, what would that be? - So one of my favorite pieces of advice from "The Long Game" is what I call no asks for a year. And this might sound intimidating, but ultimately, this is about shifting our own mindset so that we are not coming into relationships with a covetous mindset or trying to be overly transactional. My goal is that for at least the first year that I'm getting to know someone, just focus on getting to know them. And, of course, you can ask for general advice, but don't ask for a politically capital-intensive thing from someone because you can very easily burn the relationship. Focus on depth. - I love that, and it takes us right back to where we started together, which is like build friendships. The networking piece comes when you have really invested in the friendships. - Yes. - Okay, thank you so much, Dorie. That is our time together today. Huge thanks again to Dorie for shifting the way that we think about networking and giving us the tools that we can actually use. Okay, now is when we get to hear from you. I want to know what resonated. I want you to share your takeaways on LinkedIn using the #WatchWithPremium hashtag. Don't forget to tag me and Dorie because we will be reading them. I'll jump into the conversation. And just remember that networking is not about collecting contacts, it's about starting real conversations and building relationships that last. So here's a small challenge before you go. I want you to find one person from today's chat and follow up, send a note, make a real connection. Let them know what stood out to you. Because the power of these events isn't just what happens on the screen, it's the community that forms around them. It's you all, folks. So thanks so much for joining us today, and we'll see you right back here next time.